Help wanted

booth

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Its as natural as can be, I cant quite explain the dynamics behind it. But it works for me and a very small group of others.

You rode with me at man and machine last year for a while, and you mentioned that it looked all right from the outside, I was one of the few finishers there as well, so how can the thumb throttle be so kak? If it was a twist I would definitely not have finished. If you are coming this year you will see a vast improvement.
Def am going to see you there and finish again!

Just trying to understand how have you compensate body wise to use it, as logic would dictate that with your throttle hand potentially lower you locked in place, means more weight etc on that side, so you would also have to compensate.
 

ozosborne

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Def am going to see you there and finish again!

Just trying to understand how have you compensate body wise to use it, as logic would dictate that with your throttle hand potentially lower you locked in place, means more weight etc on that side, so you would also have to compensate.
Your hand isnt really locked in place hey, but I suppose that makes as much sense to you as the twist makes to me.

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ok Naughty Ian , now i am done
I doubt it:icon_lol:

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Def am going to see you there and finish again!

Just trying to understand how have you compensate body wise to use it, as logic would dictate that with your throttle hand potentially lower you locked in place, means more weight etc on that side, so you would also have to compensate.
Reckon this year is going to be easier, but I will be entering the harder route for sure.
 

swazi_matt

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Oz, what is the reason for quads having a TT? (an honest question, i never understood why they were diff to bike throttles)

In the situation of double blip over a pipe i can only think that when you are standing far forward with the bars almost in your waist, it might be difficult to give it the second blip
 

StuartC

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@Swazi it was to do with the riding instructions, "Press here" was so much easier to understand than "rotate throttle tube"
 

Fires

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ozosborne besides what was written here, I am not hammering on the thumb throttle thing, because it is done in my mind and if you are happy, well then ride it that way. But a couple things you mentioned here made me think of my beginnings:

Before I even had a bike I had a great holiday riding a quad and absolutely enjoyed it as a first experience. Then someone loaned me their bike and I was completely HOOKED, but I had a couple scary whiskeys that I sort of saved. Most notably the first one was just going down a slightly bumpy road and I almost road the bike into the dam at the end :icon_lol: Also everyone commented how uptight I looked on the bike and they were worried I was going to do something stupid.

BUT it was my first real experience on two wheels and with a twist throttle. Even though my entire biking experience prior to this was basically 0 (read, an odd outride on holiday...like once I think before this extended holiday). So in less than a week I had become accustomed to the thumb throttle and the twist grip scared the shit out of me because it was new and something I hadn't experienced. Yet when I bought my bike I got used to it super fast.

So my point is, yes you have ridden thumb throttle all your life, so to "dis-learn" it will take a while, but the same issues you are talking about I had, but on a shorter time scale due to lack of experience in general.

I think it was Chad who was saying in the thread try it for 1 month or 2, and maybe you will like it. You will get used to it surprisingly quickly once you do. For me in the beginning I could never understand how you can ride and steer a bike without whiskey'ing. But once you loosen up and learn the technique it becomes second nature, easy and fun. Except for the odd whiskey which I think we all still have at unforeseen difficult moments :icon_e_biggrin:

I also struggle to see the REAL difference between the two, as I have never ridden a bike with thumb throttle, but what guys are saying in terms of hand position etc is in my mind a fair point, thinking of how much you move on a bike. As far as I understand it it had to do with the turning on a quad, although some did come with twist throttles I believe (raptor?). And the on/off for me on a thumb throttle.

Googled now and found some similar info and more input:

"thumb throttles are used on atv's becuase it is extremely hard to control a twist throttle when turning a quad because your body changes angles compared to the constant vertical axis of the 4 wheeler always staying flat and on 4 wheels. a dirt bike on the other hand leans over with your body in turns therefore your body angle always relates to the vehicle angle enough to allow control of the twist throttle, your body never becomes to close or to far away from the throttle."

"I've been riding for many years (now on a month-old FZ-09) but still fondly remember my ATVs from when I was a teen, and all of those had thumb throttles. Making the transition to twisting was pretty awkward back then, and I'm wondering why bikes all have twist throttles. It doesn't seem to make sense from a control standpoint, since you are actively moving your wrist around, and (for those not used to it) just turning the handlebars can cause your hand/wrist to move the throttle. "


What it comes down to for most is the on/off nature of a thumb, which I believe and still feel on quads, whereas on twist to maintain throttle position and for ease of adjustment it is easier.

For you Oz, I think your immense experience in quads and racing them over the years has given you a lot of experience with a thumb throttle, and thus you might not feel the difficulties others have. As said already, not hammering here, so if it suits you, stick with it. Just wanted to give you my 2c worth based on my past experience because I could relate to some things you mentioned and generally a more holistic answer than some of the shit posted here. I love the banter guys, but sometimes people just want to get to the good stuff and actually have an informative answer as well.

Banter on.. :icon_lol: :thumbs up:
 

BULL

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You wont get a better answer than this Oz.^^^^
 

ozosborne

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Oz, what is the reason for quads having a TT? (an honest question, i never understood why they were diff to bike throttles)

In the situation of double blip over a pipe i can only think that when you are standing far forward with the bars almost in your waist, it might be difficult to give it the second blip
I reckon the biggest reason was the whiskey throttle issue, quite easy to fall off and end up hanging on being dragged behind, actually seen this happen to a lot of guys that changed from thumb to twist on their quads. (there are a lot of guys that do it this way around too, 1 guy I knew had a 1/8th turn on his shit hot 450, scary stuff)

Then also as pointed out by Fires I think it has to do with the hanging off to corner as well. But with a twist that will be possible as well though. I really think its a case of what one is used to.
 

ozosborne

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ozosborne besides what was written here, I am not hammering on the thumb throttle thing, because it is done in my mind and if you are happy, well then ride it that way. But a couple things you mentioned here made me think of my beginnings:

Before I even had a bike I had a great holiday riding a quad and absolutely enjoyed it as a first experience. Then someone loaned me their bike and I was completely HOOKED, but I had a couple scary whiskeys that I sort of saved. Most notably the first one was just going down a slightly bumpy road and I almost road the bike into the dam at the end :icon_lol: Also everyone commented how uptight I looked on the bike and they were worried I was going to do something stupid.

BUT it was my first real experience on two wheels and with a twist throttle. Even though my entire biking experience prior to this was basically 0 (read, an odd outride on holiday...like once I think before this extended holiday). So in less than a week I had become accustomed to the thumb throttle and the twist grip scared the shit out of me because it was new and something I hadn't experienced. Yet when I bought my bike I got used to it super fast.

So my point is, yes you have ridden thumb throttle all your life, so to "dis-learn" it will take a while, but the same issues you are talking about I had, but on a shorter time scale due to lack of experience in general.

I think it was Chad who was saying in the thread try it for 1 month or 2, and maybe you will like it. You will get used to it surprisingly quickly once you do. For me in the beginning I could never understand how you can ride and steer a bike without whiskey'ing. But once you loosen up and learn the technique it becomes second nature, easy and fun. Except for the odd whiskey which I think we all still have at unforeseen difficult moments :icon_e_biggrin:

I also struggle to see the REAL difference between the two, as I have never ridden a bike with thumb throttle, but what guys are saying in terms of hand position etc is in my mind a fair point, thinking of how much you move on a bike. As far as I understand it it had to do with the turning on a quad, although some did come with twist throttles I believe (raptor?). And the on/off for me on a thumb throttle.

Googled now and found some similar info and more input:

"thumb throttles are used on atv's becuase it is extremely hard to control a twist throttle when turning a quad because your body changes angles compared to the constant vertical axis of the 4 wheeler always staying flat and on 4 wheels. a dirt bike on the other hand leans over with your body in turns therefore your body angle always relates to the vehicle angle enough to allow control of the twist throttle, your body never becomes to close or to far away from the throttle."

"I've been riding for many years (now on a month-old FZ-09) but still fondly remember my ATVs from when I was a teen, and all of those had thumb throttles. Making the transition to twisting was pretty awkward back then, and I'm wondering why bikes all have twist throttles. It doesn't seem to make sense from a control standpoint, since you are actively moving your wrist around, and (for those not used to it) just turning the handlebars can cause your hand/wrist to move the throttle. "


What it comes down to for most is the on/off nature of a thumb, which I believe and still feel on quads, whereas on twist to maintain throttle position and for ease of adjustment it is easier.

For you Oz, I think your immense experience in quads and racing them over the years has given you a lot of experience with a thumb throttle, and thus you might not feel the difficulties others have. As said already, not hammering here, so if it suits you, stick with it. Just wanted to give you my 2c worth based on my past experience because I could relate to some things you mentioned and generally a more holistic answer than some of the shit posted here. I love the banter guys, but sometimes people just want to get to the good stuff and actually have an informative answer as well.

Banter on.. :icon_lol: :thumbs up:
The simplest answer would be that I did in fact give the twist a try on my kdx, I gave it multiple trys and absolutely hated it. I could not gather speed and was wobbling all over the place, sort of as you mention being stiff and rigid on the bike, I was also death gripping the throttle side for some reason, so much so that the arm pump was crazy, something I dont suffer too much from.

What's odd is that back in 2005 when I got my first quad, a banshee. The thumb throttle felt weird as I had come from racing track bikes. I started riding socially and got the hang of it, then in 2006 I started racing track and I have no idea how many hours there were clocked, but it was insane. If we were not at race meetings, we were at the track at least 3 days a week practicing for hours on end, burning through a new set of tyres each day we went. Then track racing died down around 2009 / 10 and I discovered off road. It took me a while but then it bit, there also many hours spent in the saddle with 2 full national seasons with a few club events and practice rides thrown in.

Point is the thumb throttle has become sub conscious almost, especially for off the beaten track. On the road Im still comfortable with a twist.

With regards to the thumb throttle being an on off switch, its really not so. You can really put in fine increments of rev if need be. Although I find myself out of lack of experience and fatique sometimes just jamming all of it and then getting stuck, but that's my own doing. At heidelberg I proved to myself that smoothness and consistency is key and had a blast. But its a mind set thing.
 

ozosborne

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@Swazi with regards to the double blip story, I havent gotten there yet, but I shall give feedback when I do and there most certainly will be video footage as I will be stoked:thumbs up:
 

swazi_matt

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Suppose what we should be looking at is the fact that we have converted one quaddie, even if he still does have some hangups ... a bit like a reformed alcoholic that still drinks his cooldrink from a gin bottle
 

Tombstone

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Without dredging through the tons of info here in detail, I have managed to pick up that "whiskey throttle" fear is a key factor for this insane adaption ("insane" mentioned with great respect - you gotta do what you gotta do, but I just can't figure). I have to be honest, in my x-ray collection is at least two whiskey-throttle collar bones, a couple of ribs and a smashed shoulder blade....... but I have always been a slow learner.... And therein lies my reason for chirping; what did I learn? I have trained myself to be really "clutch-twitchy", always a finger or two on the clutch. Any time my throttle misbehaves, be it at the twist or the carb, I am quick with the clutch to disengage that nonsense from the drive train. That being said, I haven't had to rely on the "twitchy-clutch" for years now, but habit has stuck and it ain't a bad one!
 

BlankieMan

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The simplest answer would be that I did in fact give the twist a try on my kdx, I gave it multiple trys and absolutely hated it. I could not gather speed and was wobbling all over the place, sort of as you mention being stiff and rigid on the bike, I was also death gripping the throttle side for some reason, so much so that the arm pump was crazy, something I dont suffer too much from.

What's odd is that back in 2005 when I got my first quad, a banshee. The thumb throttle felt weird as I had come from racing track bikes. I started riding socially and got the hang of it, then in 2006 I started racing track and I have no idea how many hours there were clocked, but it was insane. If we were not at race meetings, we were at the track at least 3 days a week practicing for hours on end, burning through a new set of tyres each day we went. Then track racing died down around 2009 / 10 and I discovered off road. It took me a while but then it bit, there also many hours spent in the saddle with 2 full national seasons with a few club events and practice rides thrown in.

Point is the thumb throttle has become sub conscious almost, especially for off the beaten track. On the road Im still comfortable with a twist.

With regards to the thumb throttle being an on off switch, its really not so. You can really put in fine increments of rev if need be. Although I find myself out of lack of experience and fatique sometimes just jamming all of it and then getting stuck, but that's my own doing. At heidelberg I proved to myself that smoothness and consistency is key and had a blast. But its a mind set thing.
just remember that you were brand new to two wheels at that point.
 

J37

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I think this has all gotten to the point that if Oz had to actually change back over to the normal throttle tube, he'd get a billion "I told you so"'s...
He can't deal with that, so he'd rather just be stubborn :icon_cool::thumbs up:
 

ozosborne

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Without dredging through the tons of info here in detail, I have managed to pick up that "whiskey throttle" fear is a key factor for this insane adaption ("insane" mentioned with great respect - you gotta do what you gotta do, but I just can't figure). I have to be honest, in my x-ray collection is at least two whiskey-throttle collar bones, a couple of ribs and a smashed shoulder blade....... but I have always been a slow learner.... And therein lies my reason for chirping; what did I learn? I have trained myself to be really "clutch-twitchy", always a finger or two on the clutch. Any time my throttle misbehaves, be it at the twist or the carb, I am quick with the clutch to disengage that nonsense from the drive train. That being said, I haven't had to rely on the "twitchy-clutch" for years now, but habit has stuck and it ain't a bad one!
Even though I have rekluse in, I still cover the clutch all the time as well. Just last week it came in handy, coming back from TK for some reason the revs just climbed at what felt like WOT, pulled the clutch after a oh shit moment and it stopped and never did it again. It can come out of nowhere.

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Dont listen to them Oz, fit Nerf Bars too.
I dont think that will work so well:icon_lol:

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I think this has all gotten to the point that if Oz had to actually change back over to the normal throttle tube, he'd get a billion "I told you so"'s...
He can't deal with that, so he'd rather just be stubborn :icon_cool::thumbs up:
Im stubborn, but not to my own detriment. If its holding me back then no problem, but at the moment its helping me excel
 
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