Lesotho Enduro

DT_Mania

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So here is the catch, what if you do take a shortcut but do not gain an advantage?” Should you still be penalised, riders or team managers who know the rules often use them to their advantage.

Yes he should be penalized for deviating but according to the rules if he did not gain an advantage then should not. You decide??
I see no catch. For me it goes back to intent. If the motive was to gain an advantage, thus it was intended, even if there was clearly no advantage after the fact the perpetrator should be penalised. Even worse so if it was a stalwart of the sport.

penalised...penalised...penalised...penalised...:icon_lol: feck that's a funny word
 

Ten Bar

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DT for you there may be no catch but this is my point when saying the rule is badly written - who is to say his motive was to gain advantage (even if it was) he can just say "sorry i took a wrong line" - The rule should just say: If you deviate 20m from the route you will get a penalty. Then there can be no grey area.

Rules rules and more rules -
 

DangerDave

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live trackers for certain races are autonatically posting fb updates on your page as you pass checkpoints, it wouldn't take much to pop up live warnings of guys going off course.
 

BigMike

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live trackers for certain races are autonatically posting fb updates on your page as you pass checkpoints, it wouldn't take much to pop up live warnings of guys going off course.
DD ... in a place like lesotho ... 10m off line means avoiding bushmans and using a tar road for instance
 

DT_Mania

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DT for you there may be no catch but this is my point when saying the rule is badly written - who is to say his motive was to gain advantage (even if it was) he can just say "sorry i took a wrong line" - The rule should just say: If you deviate 20m from the route you will get a penalty. Then there can be no grey area.

Rules rules and more rules -
I agree with you.
 
A

armpump

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DD ... in a place like lesotho ... 10m off line means avoiding bushmans and using a tar road for instance
And then just wait at top till leading rider comes past you and say eish sorry i took wrong line.

No mention of energy saved for next 100km.
 

StuartC

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Cheating has been going on for ever in SA racing and it's generally not the hacker in the middle or at the back, top riders are normally the ones. I have not seen the rules of late but a few years ago it was more than 20m off the route disqualification,You could go 20m off the route but you have to rejoin the route where you left it.
 

DT_Mania

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Cheating has been going on for ever in SA racing and it's generally not the hacker in the middle or at the back, top riders are normally the ones. I have not seen the rules of late but a few years ago it was more than 20m off the route disqualification,You could go 20m off the route but you have to rejoin the route where you left it.
I also remember the 20m rule, but this year all the regional rules seem very vague around deviation.....below the wording on most regional sites.

If a competitor returns an unrealistic fast lap time and it is obvious that the competitor has deviated from the route thereby gaining a time advantage over other competitors - 30 minutes per occurrence plus the estimated time advantage gained by the deviation/s
 

Ratel

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Do you know how easy it is to by accident go off track when following a GPS, you have to backtrack sometimes to get on the right line again. Also when you make one small mistake it is easy for other people to pass you and you wont even see them. i am sure the organisers checked the GPS's that is why they didnt inforce the penalty. Mike the tar road is a bit further than 10m from bushmans lol.
 

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One of the reasons I stopped competing - got tired of seeing people cutting out difficult sections at extreme events but claiming finishers bragging rights. 20m can be the difference between 1/2hr afkak and a recovery cruise
 

DenDirtbiker

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One of the reasons I stopped competing - got tired of seeing people cutting out difficult sections at extreme events but claiming finishers bragging rights. 20m can be the difference between 1/2hr afkak and a recovery cruise
Yip happened to me during 2014 Roof. I literally took about 40 minutes to do 1 climb only to turn around and see hordes of riders deviating about 200m off the track, taking a p!ss easy line and doing it in 2 minutes or less.
 

Naughty Ian

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There we have SA Enduro racing at it's best. A race is held, a petition is lodged and subsequently overturned by the organizers and said rider is given his original standing.
Nope, moto 101 keyboard racers dispute such findings, many who have never raced before in any form of racing.
Says a lot for the sport we are supposed to love and enjoy :33:
 

DT_Mania

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There we have SA Enduro racing at it's best. A race is held, a petition is lodged and subsequently overturned by the organizers and said rider is given his original standing.
Nope, moto 101 keyboard racers dispute such findings, many who have never raced before in any form of racing.
Says a lot for the sport we are supposed to love and enjoy :33:
Interesante bydrae, Ian. Baie om oor na te dink.
 

Jaybay_195

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Here is some logic that i know is not favored on 101 :icon_e_confused:

Bull, reading between the lines here - its obvious if the unnamed rider blatantly cut the track then surely he would have been DQ'd or penalized. Obviously there was enough evidence (GPS Proof) that he did not gain an advantage hence the steward or jury overturned the ruling. This is a mountain out of a molehill. If Yamaha or the unofficial which can only be the Brian Capper racing team where not happy with the ruling they have just as much right to put in an appeal. To just pack up and leave is actually quite sad.

LIST OF PENALTIES The following penalties can be applied without a hearing. a) POINTS
i) Missing one route check or time check:- 3600 points
ii) Early arrival at time check, i.e. for each minute early arrival, before the AA:-60 points
iii) Late arrival at a time check, i.e. every full minute after the AA:-60 points
iv) Deviating off the route to gain an advantage i.e. turning inside double markers, turning inside marking stakes or bunting, being further than 20 metres away from a single marker. (1st offence):- 600 points

This is a very badly written rule and is too vague - So here is the catch, what if you do take a shortcut but do not gain an advantage?” Should you still be penalised, riders or team managers who know the rules often use them to their advantage.

Yes he should be penalized for deviating but according to the rules if he did not gain an advantage then should not. You decide??
If you're not gaining an advantage, i don't think it can be called a shortcut. Sometimes wrong line choices are made, which takes you off the main line/route in a special, you lose time, get back to the main line, and you don't repeat for the rest of the race. You've lost time, not made any. Unless the special is bunted very strictly, I believe there should be some leeway afforded to riders to use the terrain.
 
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armpump

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That's why they have a few meters on either side of "track"




Sharp end of field KNOW when they take suspect lines or cut corners.

Compare it to moving a ball in the rough in golf and then winning prizes............ worst part is taking them ahead of other chaps who posted there real scores.
 

Jaybay_195

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That's why they have a few meters on either side of "track"




Sharp end of field KNOW when they take suspect lines or cut corners.

Compare it to moving a ball in the rough in golf and then winning prizes............ worst part is taking them ahead of other chaps who posted there real scores.
20m either side of a single marker. The rider in question obviously didn't break the rules, hence the penalty being reversed. So, technically speaking, no cheating happened, as no advantage was gained. Fair game.
 

Jaybay_195

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if it was 20m
Guess we'll never know. I've spoken with the rider in question. It was, according to him, a case of wrong line choice, which ultimately cost him 30 seconds in the special. A high line, low line scenario, which I might add is quite normal for enduro.
 

BigMike

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Do you know how easy it is to by accident go off track when following a GPS, you have to backtrack sometimes to get on the right line again. Also when you make one small mistake it is easy for other people to pass you and you wont even see them. i am sure the organisers checked the GPS's that is why they didnt inforce the penalty. Mike the tar road is a bit further than 10m from bushmans lol.
Remember a gps track is one dimensional ... bushmans left line in some places is less than 10m on a map... guaranteed





I was using that as an example as it is we known.. another one, hitlers, less than 20m offline and you ride around the whole thing
 
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